This page is intended to help users learn about how the combat system works in KOC. We need researches with different troops, research levels and so on to work this out. Please note: The page is a mess as it's still in progress and haven't formed up a good framework yet.
Let me explain that a bit more...When we attack a player or a wilderness or a barb camp, we just send in some no. of armies and then get the aftermath, unaware of what happened... how many archers killed how many swordsmen, or if they even attacked swordsmen… and if not which troops did they attack? Why did all my troops die when my army strength was clearly higher then theirs???
HYPOTHESIS and OBJECTIVES (kind of)
From what I have heard and experienced, the battle is turn-based. Apparently,
If both in range, troops with highest speed attack first... but which troops do they attack: the ones with the highest speed/life/defence or the lowest? Range plays the biggest role on both sides, in terms of presenting a target. If I attack you with archers or ballistae, regardless of how many Cavalry you might have or how fast they are, your Ballistae will die first... and that's because the range of your ballistae is highest. Is this flawed? Absolutely. That's how it is, though. the order and priority list of troops to die is: Crossbows, catapults, ballista, archers, scout, cavalry, hc, pike, militia, sword, ram.
Attack Efficiency = Attack X no. of attackers - (life + defence) X no. of troops defending. For example if 1000 archers attack 2000 militia, damage done by archers would be
250 X 1000 - (400 + 13) X 2000 = 240,000 - 826,000 = - 586,000. Hence, 586,000/413 = 1419 approx. militia would be still standing alive and take their turn to attack
100 X 2000 - (500 + 25) X 1000 = 200,000 - 525,000 = - 325,000. Hence, 325,000/525 = 619 approx archers survived.
240 X 619 - (400+13) X 1419 = 148,560 - 586,047 = 437478/413 militia = 1059 militia. IS IT TRUE? (This is of course, neglecting the knight's level, and other research upgrades like metal alloy, poisoned edge, Fletching, healing potions. other upgrades like Alloy Horseshoes and magical mappings don't shouldn't affect the battle as they are specifically for marching)
What I am trying to get here is... If I attack a player/ barb camps/wilderness with:
x no. of troops A, y no. of troops B and z no. of troops C
and the defenders have:
a no. of troops D, b no. of troops E and c no. of troops F
Which units attack which? Which ones attack first and the last? I want to know the mechanics of the battle system.
(I, Doggy316, finished the equation and if this guy has the right idea then 2 militia will survive in victory. Can someone please test this??)
Rock - Paper - Scissors
Update on Battle System
Rock - Melee Units
Paper - Range Units
Scissors - Speed Units
The basis of the Main Battle System is like this Rock - Paper- Scissors.
- Melee units takes out Speed Units
- Speed units takes out Range Units
- Range units takes out Melee Units
But the twist here is the Tier levels.
Swordsman can defend against Archers.. And can win.. Because swordsman are Tier 2 Units while Archers are Tier 1..
Here to give a basic idea on match up.
|Match||Most Likely to Win|
|T1.Melee vs T1.Melee||Tie|
|T1.Melee vs T1.Range||T1.Range|
|T1.Melee vs T1.Speed||T1.Melee|
|T1.Melee vs T2.Melee||T2.Melee|
|T1.Melee vs T2.Range||T2.Range|
|T1.Melee vs T2.Speed||T2.Speed|
|T2 Melee vs T1 Range||T2 Melee|
|T2 Melee vs T1 Speed||T2 Melee|
|T2.Melee vs T2.Melee||Tie|
|T2.Melee vs T2.Range||T2.Range|
|T2.Melee vs T2.Speed||T2.Melee|
|T1.Range vs T1.Range||Tie|
|T1.Range vs T1.Speed||T1.Speed|
|T1.Range vs T2.Speed||T2.Speed|
|T1 Range vs T2 Range||T2 Range|
|T2.Range vs T1.Speed||T2.Range|
|T2.Range vs T2.Speed||T2.Speed|
|T2 Range vs T2 Range||Tie|
|T1.Speed vs T1.Speed||Tie|
|T1.Speed vs T2.Speed||T2.Speed|
|T2 Speed vs T2 Speed||Tie|
On the table above it's for 1 against 1, 10 against 10 etc.. On the attacks you need to consider the following
- Wall defenses and Field defenses
- Research levels
- Specialty Troops
Any unit of a set Tier will have the same Might value, and upkeep, as every other unit in that tier level.
The Tier 1 units are:
- Pikemen (Melee)
- Archers (Ranged)
- Cavalry (Speed)
The Tier 2 units are:
- Swordsmen (Melee)
- Ballista (Ranged)
- Heavy Cavalry (Speed).
The beginner troops are:
The specialty troops are:
- Supply Troops
- Supply Wagons
- Battering Rams
Specialty Troops Explained
The beginner troops are:
- Militiamen. (considered specialty > Traps)
The specialty troops are:
- Supply Troops
- Supply Wagons
- Battering Rams
Scouts are for scouting. Sometimes for trap clearing. (if you want to speed up the process)
Supply troops are for transport and looting if wagons are not available (also can be used as trap cleaners)
Supply Wagons best on transporting and looting big amount of resources
Militiamen can be used to clear field defenses.
Batering Rams not only useful for breaking through wall fortifications but also to reduce troop losses in every day raid.
Catapults throw large rocks from a huge distance. They are most effective against the enemy's defenses.
Thoughts from Crates
I'm thinking this is more along the lines of (not taking into account wall strength, wall defenses or knight score): hit points being reduced by the amount of the attacker's Attack score minus the defender's Defense score, reducing the Life score by that quantity for each turn that both parties are in range of each other, which as mentioned above is currently calculated using BOTH parties' range score rather than just one or the other. This largely renders the "Speed" factor irrelevant except for the time it takes to march and return. SO: I attack you with 100 archers, and you have 100 ballistae. In a perfect world, this would mean that your ballistae get to launch a volley at me first, as they have a range score of 1400 and the archers only have a range of 1200... and in this hypothetical scenario, all of my archers would die before they even got into range, as the ballistae have an attack score of 900 and the archers only have 25 defense and 500 life. HOWEVER, the way it ACTUALLY works is that the HIGHEST MATCHED range score is used; therefore, your ballistae and my archers will begin the engagement at the SAME TIME, and this would also be true if I were using Cavalry or any other low-range troops. I haven't gotten far enough along in my research to unify these equations down to the point where I can post them here, but I am getting very close.
- Crates 19:17, January 22, 2011 (UTC)
Speed is not irrelevant, it is indeed the only way you can explain the scout losses if you are foolish enough to leave them in an embattled city. They charge out to the opponents melee line and are then cut down by the troops there due to their low combat values. They get there first due to the fact that their (unmoderated) speed is 3000 - twice as fast as any other troop type. Given the IGOUGO nature of the combat rounds, the defending scouts get to move first and reach the line just in time for the first round of fighting.
As for your other worked example, ballistae are indeed a one shot kill for most troop types, however as the defenders fire first (confirmed in forums by devs) and (in my experience of losses that can only be explained by this fact) they will only take on that which they can reasonably kill. So 1000 archers will possibly not fire at all 1000 ballistae, they will fire at a sub-set of them against which they can achieve kills. So perhaps they target 250 ballistae, which would kill them, however if fire results are calculated simultaneously, then 1000 ballistae kill an archer each and you get the result of 750 ballistae surviving with 0 archers left, if however ranged fire is resolved independently for each side, then by round two, 750 ballistae would be facing 250 archers, these could take down a further 82 ballistae, resulting in only 658 surviving ballistae. ...
I think you're still wrong here. Scouts die first because they have a defense score of one. Crates 03:51, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
Crates - There are just too many things that cannot be explained if your hypothesis about speed (being irrelevant) is correct. Sure scouts die quick partly because they have little life and defense HOWEVER working by the same logic as you use Rams are completely invincible - again wrong. The only way this can be explained is by a move, fire, move, fire round based combat system. Faster troops hit the melee line first, therefore (if they are of low quality) they will die first. Slow troops take an age to hit the melee line, so are vulnerable to incoming ranged fire for longer. Take long enough to reach the melee line and you actually will not reach it, you'll be pushing up the daisies long before you get there.
From what I can see either in ranged or melee combat it runs along the lines of:
life - (attack - defense)
When life = zero unit is dead HOWEVER there has to be a series of modifiers both positive and negative to allow for the suitability of a troop type in any given 1 on 1. This allows pikes to have an advantage when fighting horse based troops and swords to have an advantage when defending against ranged attacks and so on.
Finally range matters too and it is not REPEAT not averaged or any such based upon the range of the attackers/defenders - if you don't believe me, send a load of cavalry against a Level 4 barbarian camp and try to acheive ZERO losees - the ranged troops there will have some of your cavalry - therefore they must get free shots, therefore range is no way modified for combat it is absolute.
Bob b 0046 GMT, 14 Feb 11
Is there any proof that "pikes to have an advantage when fighting horse based troops and swords to have an advantage when defending against ranged attacks " isn't just so much Fluff in a Troop discription? I've effectivly proven the Move-Hit cycle theory (though the Range as target pref is something I've been working twards) and shown that it's 1 target->1 target. I can even show that once troops meet, movement stops. I've never seen anything to show that Swordsmen do more damage to archers though.
Again troops have specialites - this isn't fluff from the description, it is fact. What I haven't got are all the multipliers. I can say it looks like pike get a 3 to 1 advantage when fighting horse based troops. At no point did I state that swords do more damage to archers, I actually said they have a DEFENSE advantage and this can be seen, but again I do not have the numbers. I would like to see your move - fire/melee data posted here, it would help. Also I cannot agree with your 1 on 1 theory, if that was the case, then losses would be greater to the defender as he would always be fighting one on one. There are too many examples of massed defence to discount that. Again if you have proof, post it.
Bob b 0453 GMT, 20 Feb 11